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'Bad Parents' Bashed, Reply to JP
Subj:     'Bad Parents' Bashed, reply to JP  
Date:     12/5/2001 6:34:28 PM Central Standard Time
From:     Gypsycurse7
To:     mpls@mnforum.org
CC:     EubanksCrew@aol.com

In a message dated 12/5/2001 4:51:24 PM Central Standard Time, J palmer  writes:
>
>  Schools are having problems, children of color rank behind white children,
> and the lower on the economic indicator a child is the less resources they
> tend to have.  These are pretty much understood, I'm just not certain how
> this is Lynnell's fault.

Did I say that poverty, racism, and any of societies ills are the fault of Lynnell Mickelsen. No, I did not. Mr. Palmer is putting words in my mouth.  Another lame debating team tactic.  
>  And while you're "certain" that liberals have demanded nothing of the sort,
> I know that many have...

Name one.  Find just one quotation.  Prove me wrong.  Lynnell Mickelsen carried to an extreme, and beyond the point of absurdity, a fairly well known "liberal" position that education-related outcomes are largely an effect of the quality of education a child receives at school.  No one who does educational research denies that extra-school factors, such as poverty and racism, affect how a child does in school.

< Specifically, though, when you state things like "in other words" or "the implication is", your stating your own interpretation however incorrect or correct it might be.  Which is fine, but when you draw conclusions or state that your interpretation is what things mean definitively it becomes wrong.

[and later, JP says]

"But I fail to see how attacking a person's opinion on the fact that parent's should not be so tense about this is doing anything to help the situation.  She didn't say don't be concerned, she said don't be overwhelmed.  And she didn't say if you're kids don't turn out right, it's your fault as a bad parent, she said if you're doing the right thing don't be OVERLY anxious about school choice because the things that your providing for kids will help them thrive and survive no matter what. [snip]

JP says "when you draw conclusions or state that your interpretation is what things mean definitively it becomes wrong," then turns around and gives his interpretation of what LM definitively meant to say in her column. Go figure.

< Schools have serious problems.  If you're interested in working on those problems lets come up with solutions and work to implement them. [snip]

What are the problems?  'We' are not going to come up with any solutions and work to implement them if we don't engage in a serious discussion about what the problems are.  We might agree that a 50% high school dropout / pushout rate is a problem, but what are the underlying causes?  I have participated in the discussion about education topics on this list quite extensively since I joined it about a month ago.  Where have you been?

-Doug Mann, Kingfield

Doug Mann for School Board
<http://educationright.tripod.com>